Rocket Stoves and all things pertaining there to!

Dirtdevil
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Re: Rocket Stoves and all things pertaining there to!

Unread post by Dirtdevil » Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:25 am

The cob is a mix of sand and clay and it is a wet blob when you get it in. It will take a long time for it to dry out, but once it does the entire bed will be sort of like a giant brick. It will not cause these kinds of issues once it is all dried out and will only take a few fires at the start of the heating season to have it working well. The point of the whole thing was to see how much could be grown in the dead of a Northern Michigan winter in a heated greenhouse. We have a lot of winter left so I may still get a chance to experiment but we are a long way from getting this bed up to 90 or 100F and holding it there and until that happens we won't be able to plant anything even moderately frost sensitive. Right now I have Kale, Cabbage and Lettuce and some herbs started in the house. I'll move those to the greenhouse when they get large enough and they should do all right.

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Farmfresh
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Re: Rocket Stoves and all things pertaining there to!

Unread post by Farmfresh » Sun Jan 12, 2020 4:31 pm

How long after a firing will it hold the heat? What temp does the greenhouse stay at?
Matthew 19:26 Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
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Dirtdevil
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Re: Rocket Stoves and all things pertaining there to!

Unread post by Dirtdevil » Sun Jan 12, 2020 5:44 pm

That's the experiment. I'll let you know when I know. Inside a house the bed is supposed to radiate heat for several days of non use and only needs to be fired a couple of times as day to keep temps up, or so I've read. I have no experience.

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Icu4dzs
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Re: Rocket Stoves and all things pertaining there to!

Unread post by Icu4dzs » Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:47 am

Well, I just lost a very long discussion on this topic and am sorry about that.
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Icu4dzs
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Re: Rocket Stoves and all things pertaining there to!

Unread post by Icu4dzs » Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:03 am

I'll try this again... |em5|

There are several issues that need to be considered here. The first is that, it is clear that constructing things that use water during the cold months where some of us live, water freezes and will retard the drying of anything that contains it. Being North of 45, it is a common problem.

I have been studying the almost "underground" growing rooms https://www.gardeningknowhow.com/specia ... houses.htm and am now pretty much of the opinion that this will be a much better approach for a "greenhouse" in the colder regions such as where both DD and I live.

I have noticed through the years that there is a distinct preference for those who publish homesteading information of any sort, to concentrate on the locations in our country that have distinctly warmer climatic conditions. The high for my farm today is predicted to be "-3*F" The low, -18*F. There are numerous issues that we in the colder climates face that seem to be ignored by those who publish.

We have shorter garden times that start later and end earlier. Our heating season is longer, starts earlier. The building materials used in warmer climate regions don't tolerate the extreme cold. Farm accessories fail/break as the result of the cold we experience. Ever tried to use a plastic bucket that breaks in pieces when dropped on a -30*F day? You get my drift.

The colder climate regions need different building materials as well. Some of those fail in extreme cold. That makes life much more difficult than in the warmer regions.

We really need a section of this forum dedicated to the issues of colder regions. |em31|
That is all I can remember of the long post I lost...
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Farmfresh
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Re: Rocket Stoves and all things pertaining there to!

Unread post by Farmfresh » Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:56 am

The thread you asked for is now in place. What a GREAT idea! viewtopic.php?f=63&t=1753

I also did a similar thread for those for whom HEAT is the main issue.
Matthew 19:26 Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
"Stop Dreaming About the Good Life and Start Living IT !"
Every little bit ... is a little bit.

Dirtdevil
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Re: Rocket Stoves and all things pertaining there to!

Unread post by Dirtdevil » Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:19 pm

I'm right on the 45th latitude but my climate is much milder than yours. I live on a peninsula surrounded by Lake Michigan the lake keeps our temps much more moderate. Our normal winter temps are in the twenties during the day and mid-teens during the nights. We have quite a few mid-thirty degree days. I consider your climate to be brutal. Not sure I could handle it. Other than that, you are right. We get one shot at most crops so it's much more do or die than more southern locales. Still, I don't seem to get some of the problems they seem to. I have never had blight or actually any pervasive disease and bugs are about the same everywhere I suppose. After a fairly short period of running this heater I am severely doubting that it is going to actually keep temps in this greenhouse high enough to permit growing anything during the winter other than things like Kale, Cabbage, lettuce, parsley and things like that. Broccoli would grow but would take up too much space. One of the main problems for us is that we don't get much sun in the winter. The Lakes may keep or temps moderated but they also produce a thick cloud cover so between that and the very short days you get at these latitudes supplemental light is pretty much a necessity.

I'm pretty impressed with the heater so far. It is fairly frugal with fuel and Very few BTU's are lost. The last few days I've keep it running for five hour stretches and the temps on the surface of the exit flue are in the 80F range. I can hold my hand on it. The temps on the surface of the bell are right around 400F or all that heat is absorbed in it's passage through the duct work in the bed. Still, the radiant heat from the bell only raises the ambient temp inside the greenhouse about 15 degrees. This may improve some as the bed gains heat but it is obvious that it's never going to reach the seventy degree range where most other plants would thrive. I'm thinking that it would be better to cover the greenhouse with a thick layer of insulation and run grow lights sixteen hours a day. That would require producing electricity for sixteen hours a day. Another thing not real easy to accomplish off-grid. It's all a work in progress. Just not a lot of time to figure it out.

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Farmfresh
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Re: Rocket Stoves and all things pertaining there to!

Unread post by Farmfresh » Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:18 pm

The thread on the guy that grows oranges in Nebraska talks some about insulating the greenhouse, particularly on the north side. viewtopic.php?f=31&t=975&p=53286&hilit=oranges#p53286
Matthew 19:26 Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
"Stop Dreaming About the Good Life and Start Living IT !"
Every little bit ... is a little bit.

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Icu4dzs
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Re: Rocket Stoves and all things pertaining there to!

Unread post by Icu4dzs » Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:38 pm

A green house is by definition, poorly insulated. One would NOT expect a RMH to support 70*F in such a location if the greenhouse is truly clear on all sides except the floor. Adding 15*F to the overall temperature seems to me to be a pretty good option. Once again, insulation is key to the success of this IMHO.

Did you build a "batch box" or a regular RMH with the cob "heat battery?" Have you looked at the "Masonry heater?" I got a DVD from a guy who shows how to build Slip-form rock walls and also Masonry heaters. IF your RMH is lasting 5 hours, that is really pretty good. The idea was that you would burn your fuel for a time and heat the cob (heat battery) so that you had a slow release of heat in the space all night long. I imagine that with the green house, getting 5 hours of heat is pretty good.

There is a really good forum for RMH and related topics. One of the best contributors is Peter van den Berg. He does a lot of research. He lives in Wales.
You might want to check that out for tips on this topic. I know some things but those guys are at it all the time. Another guy there is Matt Walker. He is also quite an experimenter and you might enjoy his work as well. *(actually, I think you already have if you learned about ceramic wool for the heat riser...)
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Dirtdevil
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Re: Rocket Stoves and all things pertaining there to!

Unread post by Dirtdevil » Sat Jan 18, 2020 7:08 am

This is a six inch J tube heater. When I started it I didn't know about batch box heaters and besides there would not be enough room. It's not a load fuel and forget it for five hours. I have to find things to do that allow me to feed new fuel into it about every half hour to forty five minutes. For now I am going to isolate the area around the bed so that only the bed and the space above it get heated. Live and learn. If I did it again I'd build a eight inch system. Still, right now is the worst part of the winter for temps and we have gained a half hour of sunlight since the solstice so it will be getting better. I am going to build some insulation panels to cover the GH at night but that won't be right away. The price of styrofoam is pretty nutz now. I am on the Donkey32 site. There is also a lot of good information on this site .

https://permies.com/forums

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